2007 - 2021

Trump as Spasm of Self-Harm

image001The first black president of the USA will have to hand over the White House to someone endorsed by the Ku Klux Klan. Peter Arnott reflects on the madness.

Remember on morning after the Brexit vote? Remember the morning after the Scottish referendum? This is so much worse, isn’t it? This feels so much more irredeemable, like being handed a prison sentence from which there is no appeal for a crime you never even heard of, far less committed. I suppose it’s partly the helplessness of it being someone else’s election, plus the humiliation of being so completely wrong about the outcome. Above all, it is the feeling that the anglo-saxon world , just as it led the way into globalization in the 1980s, is now leading the way into an era of, well, what? Self harm? Toxic delusion? Actual honest to God fascism?

We don’t know. We have no way of knowing. Just as with Brexit, the election of Donald Trump is not so much a political decision as a spasm, an ill-fated lashing out, a fore-doomed vote for a Time Machine back to the fifties, despite the laws of physics, let alone the softer sciences of economics and history. Like the Glasgow taxi driver, a man in his sixties, who told me he had voted Leave in June because he wanted to see “full employment come back to the Clyde”, you’re left not knowing what to say, it would almost be an act of cruelty to tell the poor bastard what you’re thinking, tell him what he’s done to the grandchildren he wanted to help find decent jobs for life – the way it used to be.

Trump’s voters too are looking at the world through Orange-tinted glasses, ludicrous and tragic all at once…voting for change, for agency, for some sense of purpose in a world whose elite are as detached from everyday reality for most of the people who live in America, in Britain…in the world…as were the high officials of the medieval church….talking to each other in Latin about the trans-national global world which only they were qualified to understand.

The very language the elite speak, let alone the “left” (if such a term is still meaningful) is as dead as a door nail

There is little point yet in speculating about what trump is actually going to do with this mandate. I’m sure he has no idea. He wasn’t elected because of policies. He hasn’t seriously prepared for this any more than Boris Johnson seriously prepared for Brexit. Besides, he’s demonstrably psychotic…he has been laying bare his paranoid, self hating Stalin-esque pathology for us every day for 18 months. All we can predict, very comfortably, having had a head start after the Brexit vote, is that anyone who attempts to apply logic or law or any other suspect form of cleverness to public policy in America for the next four years..is going to be loudly denounced as an enemy of the people.

But again, as with Brexit, thanks to the founding fathers this time, we get a period of phony war, of strictly time-limited transition on which to try to position ourselves and take a few wild guesses as to what happens after inauguration, or Article 50…whichever comes first.

Because, make no mistake, the Brexiteers have just acquired a very powerful ally. Nigel Farage is now incomparably the best connected, most influential politician in Britain. Just as Vladimir Putin is incomparably the best placed player of what we used to call “The Great Game”.

“make no mistake, the Brexiteers have just acquired a very powerful ally. Nigel Farage is now incomparably the best connected, most influential politician in Britain…”

And if that doesn’t give you a clue as to what happens next, consider this, if we can’t predict what Trump will do, we can make a much more educated guess as to what the Republicans in congress and Theresa May will do. (for starters) The Republicans will; rally round a President who is not really one of them, but with whom they share a few key, very dangerous delusions, one of which is climate change, and others of which are unfree trade and unfree women. While our woman in number 10 will get back on a plane when she’s back from India and go and do some very serious bum sucking. An isolationist America which hates the very notion of Europe as a rival world and economic power is about to become the best friend Brexit Britain could hope for.

As for us? On the left? We are all Jeremy Corbyn now. Self regarding, irrelevant and ludicrous. We totally missed this boat. The collapse of globalisation turns out to be a gift for the populist, isolationist right, from the Taliban to Trump and not to smart ass little weasels like us who share a language of internationalist privilege with the Clintons of this world who turned out to be our best defense. Any notion on the left of coming out of this stronger, or even with a game plan, seems like masturbatory hubris this morning.

The world is in for four years of darkness, so are we. And Scottish Independence? In a word as dangerous as this one has just become? On a pre-Brexit timetable? Don’t be fucking ridiculous. Indy ref 2 has now definitively receded back beyond the election in 2020, when, just maybe, Michele Obama will be back to deliver us.

And by then, I suspect, we’ll already be well advanced on Plan B, whatever that turns out to be. I suspect, I fear it’s going to be a long, dark haul through a world of shit.

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  1. John Robertson says:

    Why Trump is less bad, far less bad, than Clinton, in as few words as possible.

    1. The Clinton family, like the Bush family before, are very close to the Sunni regimes in Saudi Arabia and Qataar. Both are fabulously rich from oil deals or from donations. The Saudis have given $25 million to the Clinton Foundation
    2. In return the Bush and Clinton regimes have given favourable treatment to these Sunni Arab regimes. Saudi families were allowed to flee the US immediately after the Twin towers attack. US families of the dead are not allowed to sue the Saudi regime for supporting the mainly Saudi attackers. The US sells advanced weapons and offers advisors to train the Saudi and Qataari armed forces.
    3. The Sunni and Qataari royal regimes despise and fear the Shia, slightly democratic, regimes in Iran, Syria, Iraq and now in Yemen. They are currently using US and UK weapons to kill Yemeni civilians.
    4. The royalist Saudis long to see the overthrow of the slightly democratic Alawite, (Shia-related) regime in Syria and provided US and UK weapons to Sunni groups, including al-Qaeda and ISIS to fight the Syrian government.
    5. This triggered the civil war, mass deaths and the flight of millions toward Europe creating our refugee crisis. These Syrian refugees added to the already hundreds of thousands of displaced Afghans and Iraqis trying to enter Europe. You might say Clinton helped cause Brexit!
    6. Because the Russians have intervened to help the Syrian government win against the Sunni rebels backed by Saudi and Qataar, using US arms, the US, in the person of Secretary of State Clinton has raised the tension in the area with threats of confrontation with the Russians, thus risking WW3.
    7. To challenge the Russians and to make sure they do not win, Clinton is prepared to prolong the suffering of the Syrian people by further supporting anti-government, Sunni groups.
    8. Clinton has the blood of thousands on her hands. The Saudis are funding both the Clintons and ISIS! Trump is a nasty piece of work but that’s it.
    9. I’m not defending Trump or the Russians so don’t be stupid and suggest I have to be.

    1. picpac says:

      Completely right. Clinton is a known warmonger and (as yet unconvicted) war criminal. The fact that leading Republicans were saying they would vote for her revealed that she was the candidate favoured by the war and crony capitalism crowd. Clinton has blood on her hands – lots of it. Trump does not and was arguing for dialogue with Russia.
      This came my way this morning:
      “It is allegedly the position of the NYPD that the money donated by Qatar to the Clinton Foundation was a bribe to set in motion the forcible overthrow of the Syrian government. As a result, numerous innocent men, women and children in Syria have been killed. Prosecutors in New York City tell SuperStation95 that “people being killed was a foreseeable consequence of fomenting a revolution inside Syria” and “that potentially makes Mrs. Clinton’s actions Second Degree Depraved Indifference Murder, under New York State Penal Law.” they said.

      The fact that the Qatar money went to the Clinton Foundation in New York, and that Hillary Clinton is a citizen of New York, gives New York State jurisdiction to prosecute Hillary for tens-of-thousands of counts of Second Degree Depraved Indifference Murder, for all the innocent people killed in Syria.”

      And Peter Arnott would have us believe that the world would be better off with Killary?

    2. This sounds like something from Alex Jones Info Wars

      1. John Robertson says:

        All my own words honest. Who is Alex Jones?

    3. Yan says:

      Completely right!

      1. Craig Miller says:

        Dear Peter …Hyper reality strikes again ….WE ALREADY KNOW in spades Clinton Corruption was rampant …we DONT NEED Alex Jones and his craziness to KNOW DEFINITIVELY that the Clinton Foundation was a front for Corruption …anyone who took Womens rights , Liberalism and economic fairness coming out of that Womens mouth as anything other than tactics and strategic lies has an endearing optimisim bordering on the childlike…

  2. John Robertson says:

    What Mary Dejevsky said in the Independent today: Don’t panic about President Trump – there are reasons to be optimistic, especially where Russia is concerned
    What he said during the campaign about dealing with Putin suggests that he will be a foreign policy realist, and not just with Russia. His aversion to involvement in foreign wars that have no direct relation to US national security suggests the same thing

    1. c rober says:

      Yet he is already on record as saying he wants to create a US army of near half a million troops , as well as build more ships , tanks etc. Something contradictory is it not?

      1. John Robertson says:

        Contradictory, indeed.

    2. Graeme Purves says:

      Sure! One can only imagine how optimistic people in the Baltic countries are feeling today as vodka glasses clink in the Kremlin.

      This morning, when a spokesman for the Trump campaign was asked by the BBC what “making our country great again” would entail, he snapped right back with “getting back to the time when America used to win wars”.

      Believing that Trump’s victory will contribute to peace and stability in the world is a grotesque and dangerous fantasy.

      1. c rober says:

        HAHA when America won wars , they even have to include against the natives to find any they won single handed. Surpised they never included David Koresh in this list somehow.


      2. MBC says:

        Isn’t Melania from Eastern Europe? OK she doesn’t appear to have much in the way of brains but then you wouldn’t need much in the way of brains if you were an Eastern European to appreciate the threat Russia poses to the former Eastern bloc.

  3. Mac says:

    It’s totally different from the Scottish referendum , in Scottish 361,000 postal votes were counted on the No side from pensioners that could not be found on any register other than the electoral list . None appeared on the NHS ,Pension, Community Charge or Property transfer lists . The Electoral Commission could not disagree with the statement but said ” you have to complain to the Government if you think there’s been an act of fraud ,and good luck with that” . At least the USA never had Ruth Davidson make the statement that “the No side has WON on the postal vote alone” when no other votes had been counted . Things are what they are and shouting won’t change that ,YES you may disagree but that won’t make any difference .

    1. c rober says:

      I thought the postal votes thing was debunked long ago , if not then why has Holyrood not instigated a session in the EU parliament alleging state voting fraud?

      1. Alf Baird says:

        Holyrood is a unionist organisation, as are hundreds of other public bodies in Scotland, hence the zero interest in investigating this. And nobody investigated new multiple registrations of residence in 100,000+ Scottish holiday and BTR homes either. 1m postal votes? Almost 90% turnout? Aye, right. For Brexit, the Scottish turnout wis less than 70%, i.e. more realistic. Who/where are the other 20%?

        1. Doug Daniel says:

          “Almost 90% turnout? Aye, right. For Brexit, the Scottish turnout wis less than 70%, i.e. more realistic. Who/where are the other 20%?”

          They were the folk who couldn’t give a toss about the EU. Results from National Survey door-chapping show that this difference in turnout is utterly unremarkable.

          Folk really need to stop seeing conspiracies everywhere they look.

        2. So, to clarify Alf you are of the belief that the referendum was stolen by MI5?

          1. Craig Miller says:

            I absolutely subscribe to that view ….I was ACTUALLY AT the Cowdenbeath count …..the disbelief that swept over the faces of the britjock labourists convinced me that whoever had just stolen that CRUCIAL (:Northern Rock …Gordon Browns uneasy succession etc ) by-election had a power to deflect far greater than mere labourists , the sheer effrontery and impunity with which it was stolen led to my having little faith in british democracy

    2. Ex Pat says:

      Got a link? Or a source? With credibility and probity?

      ie OpenDemocracy would be nice. The Daily Heil or the Torygraph not so much.

  4. DialMforMurdo says:

    Why Clinton is less bad, far less bad, than Trump, in as few words as possible.

    She’s not Trump.

    1. picpac says:

      A stupid comment which clearly suggests the writer has no idea of the depth of the Clintons’ depravity.

      1. DialMforMurdo says:

        Do enlighten me to the provable certified depravity of Team Clinton, old fruit.

        I suspect Trump’s impact on the Middle East may be just as disastrous Clinton’s, after all, ‘he’s going to be a great friend of Israel.’

  5. Joe Hastie says:

    You really need to get a life, how many millions of Americans voted for Mr Donald Trump, now President Elect.
    Are you really saying you are right and they are all wrong.
    What about democracy?

    1. c rober says:

      Democracy is a sham , so its hiding among the shamblers.

      Trump just wants the power to creat his wealth , like most politicians , our own included.

      Have you even read his 100 odd promises , they are undeliverable , but in that 4 years he will have weighted income generation in his favour – playing the market , and like the Clintons having a bank account for favours.

      Energy indpendence , wall at Mexico paid for by the Mexicans , trade tarrifs – its easy to fool the gullible , or the feart.

    2. Bryan Weir says:

      The Americans were wrong. Watch this space.

      As a race, the Americans are probably the most naive, parochial and insular on the planet. They have been raised in a vast country with massive resources. They have been taught that they don’t need anyone else and that they are best of the best.

      Many of them are totally ignorant about the rest of the world, sitting as they are in a place where outside of 9/11 no one could ever “get at them”.

      More than half of them don’t even have a feckin passport!

  6. Iain MacPhail says:

    This puts Indyref much closer.
    Scotland and Canada are the two remaining beacons of sanity, sense & decency in the North

  7. Paul Codd says:

    “Hillary was the best defense (against Trump)” Sorry 180° wrong. It was Hillary that made this a choice that could not possibly go right for America or the world. She is so deeply compromised, and so deeply embedded in the Goldman-Sachs military financial complex that there was never going to be a right answer to this question posed to Americans. I depise Trump, but would not have voted for her, any more than I would vote for trump.
    We are all Jeremy Corbyn now. Just as Americans should have been Bernie Sanders. Things would be looking a lot different today had the democrats had the balls to go with the candidate people say is “incapable of winning elections”, just as the Republicans did.

  8. Yan says:

    A world of shit that the internationalist left defecated, “it wisnae us” YES it fckn was!

  9. MVH says:

    ‘we are all Jeremy Corbyn now. Ludicrous, self regarding and irrelevant’. Sounds more like a desription of Hilary Clinton. Or Owen Wotsit who headed the labour coup down south. Shame the Clintons allegedly rigged the primaries, so the American working class could not have the candidate they wanted to vote for . Bernie Sanders could easily beat Trump as indicated by the polls. But no. Fake lefties/red Tories screw it up for everyone including themselves again.

    I can’t believe you tried to use that to smear Corbyn, Mr Arnott. Seriously 😀

    1. What was ‘the Labour coup?’

      1. Frank says:

        The Labour coup refers to the organised mass resignations of Jeremy Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet in a failed attempt at bringing Corbyn down as leader. Didn’t you know that?

        1. Craig Miller says:

          Ingenue …..those seemingly genuine ignorances of the word “COUP” when applied to the actions of the vile labourists in Westminster and their acting out of their internecine hatreds….. tendentious….carrying on carrying on …even after its no longer amusing ….or informative

  10. Josef O Luain says:

    Man-up there, you smart ass little weasel!

    Speaking as a smart ass little weasel of many years standing, myself, I am much more inclined to congratulate the American people on the successful completion of their bloodless Revolution.

    The US Establishment has been dealt a breath-taking and excruciating kick in the chookies from where I’m standing, as has, by extension, our own dearly beloved bunch of hereditary wasters.

    Re: Indyref 2; a quick history lesson on the Clearances and the consequences suffered by his maternal forebears should get him on-board nicely for Scottish independence.

    Your right on one thing: nobody knows what’s coming next, not that we ever did know what was coming, of course.

    1. c rober says:

      Your having a laugh , the guy hates the idea of Scottish indy – as long as the SNP are involved , becuase they eventually said no to him. All that know Trump have said this is about old scores , not job creation , not removing the wealth of corporations , of medico , or oil co – its about wealth creation for the 1 percent continuing , and he is sub 1 percent now but tomorrow in control of the levers different story.

  11. George Gunn says:

    Peter should calm down. Trump will be able to do nothing in the White house, like Obama, unless his masters allow it. There will be the continuing “othering” of Russia, the continuing exploitation of every resource on the planet in a race with China and an extension of the new insularity which is the popular will in the USA. You mean to tell me if Hilary Clinton got into the White House this would be different? As for Scottish independence I believe it is coming yet for a’ that; it gets closer every day. Despair is an easy condition but an expensive position politically. Make no mistake – a Trump fronted America is dangerous. But, in world terms, America is always a dangerous entity because it does not have policy, only interests.

    1. c rober says:

      Funny though how a muppet without any proof , and checks and balances for costing could promise the world – when its undeliverable , and still be believed.

      Wee nic should take note , and carbon copy his bullshit , and therin will lie indy.

      Trump was continually savaged in the real media , by educated critics , with those checks and balances – but somehow the bait was still swallowed , on the banner of GREAT , not unlike brexit.

      So Nic needs to do the same , bullshit and lay it on thick , and keep repeating until it is believed – no doubt the brexit and Trump advisers and spin docs are in need of a job.

    2. John O'Dowd says:

      George Gunn – the voice of sanity.

      Who really thinks the USA is a democracy? Or that the 0.001% will yield real power to this muppet?

      The levers are still in their hands, and the Deep State will continue much as before in its job of enriching the Plutocracy – only now without the faux democratic/liberal/progressive rhetoric of the Clintons, or the drone-murderer Obama.

    3. muttley79 says:

      I am inclined to agree with your post. The real power in the USA is located in the MIC, particularly the NSA and CIA imo.

      1. John O'Dowd says:

        Correct Mutley79 – the Deep State is all of the above plus Wall St.

  12. Craig Miller says:

    So incredibly happy to see the Neo Con fan club in Bute House eating ashes ….the secret policeman Angus Robertson must have been crying into his cornflakes…..I have no great suit for Trump but I take him at his word when he says he is resisting the disgusting Russophobia that the SNP seem to be taking their great british share in ….don’t want another NATO war with brown people whose stuff has tempted the avarice of this psychotic conglomeration …..in this I am PROUD to be distinguished from the secret policeman Angus Robertson

    1. Craig Miller says:

      I meant of course ” psychopathic conglomeration “…..A Free Scotland living morally in the world was why I became a Nationalist .. whose idea was it to support the Theft of Palestine ?…..was there REALLY a great sea change in a long standing opposition to NATO or was it engineered by sinister anti Scottish secret policemen in Millbank using their intruded agent Angus Robertson

    2. John O'Dowd says:

      On a point of logic Craig – if you know Angus Robertson is a ‘secret policeman’ – then he’s not a ‘secret’ policeman or – possibly – not even a ‘policeman’?

      1. Craig Miller says:

        Ah but the reason I know this thing as a fact must alas remain a secret ….maybe he is straight up ……what would I know anyway ?..

        1. John O'Dowd says:

          I am intrigued. Hadn’t heard about the Tel Aviv visit. Nato decision was a disgrace. The ONLY reason for supporting the SNP is the national liberation agenda.

          The party has no other purpose – and should not survive beyond independence.

          1. Craig Miller says:

            Sorry just saw this ….the zionist front had a stall at the last Conf …called Middle East blah blah blah ..but was …friends of isre*l ……..The Military Intelligence cuckoo announced recently that in a break with tradition he would visit Stolen Palestine and meet the entity’s leadership ….was there a groundswell in the grassroots for this legitimising visit ?…..the right-wing lurch that this individual embodys ….must give pause to decent people , whatever their constitutional position …

  13. Redgauntlet says:

    Brace, brace!!!

  14. Redgauntlet says:

    I must say I find the rather naive argument of Clinton detractors bewildering.

    Yes, the Clintons are corrupt, complicit in illegal wars and torture as per the Wikileaks.
    Yes, the Clintons are the elite, just like the EU were “the elite”..
    Yes, Citybank proposed most of the names of Obama’s two administrations, which is one of the many and quite incredible details contained in the emails which Wikileaks put out there – see John Pilger’s amazing interview with Assange here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sbT3_9dJY4&feature=share

    But why does anybody suppose Trump is not going to do all of these things too?

    The question is not, “Is Hilary bad”? The question was always, “Is Trump not even worse?”. And by his discourse, background, stated policy aims, I would say he is significantly worse.

    On another note, no disappointment matches the one I felt on September 19th. Should Scotland be an independent country? No.

    I still can’t believe it…

    I don’t see how Peter’s assertion about “the world becoming a more dangerous place” – which sounds slightly hysterical, slightly J Freedland; it depends who you are and where you are – has any bearing on Scottish independence? Why do you say that Peter?

  15. Craig Miller says:

    It was always Corrupt liar V Corrupt liar …..my only satisfaction is those whose carefully laid plans to ramp up Russophobia have been turned into losers ….ha ha ha ha ….the BBC doesn’t know what to say …..never mind the secret police will tell them their lines presently

    1. Redgauntlet says:

      I totally agree….I mean all that bollocks about Russian warships sailing through the English Channel, like that was somehow not allowed, when they’re international waters.

      You’d think the Russians had sent a warship up the Thames, and that was on Ch4 news….god knows what the BBC must be like.

      Also this. Just think. No more Clintons. Just think how gutted the Clintons must be right now. Bill. Hilary. Chelsea. Think of those completely nasty, selfish, greedy, narcissistic egomaniacs sitting around the breakfast table. Saying grace probably. Over a boiled egg and muesli.

      It’s a consolation to think of all the abhorrent people Trump has pissed off. But it is positively scary to think of all the fascists all over the world he has pleased. Fascism is back. France is next.

      1. Craig Miller says:

        The Military Intelligence type standing in front of his fellow brits at Westminster , calling for all ports to be denied to the Russian fleet not ALL fleets just Russia , before announcing that he is off to ” Tel Aviv ” to get his reward …..and he claims to be doing this in the name of Scottish Independence ……a veritable Adam Busby par excellence….if anything is better designed to detach people of political integrity from the still viable vehicle of the SNP ..then adopting pro NATO, pro war , pro apaarthied policies is hard to beat

  16. Alf Baird says:

    Have our Scottish political leaders/elites/establishment apologised yet to President Trump for the insults they have all made about him over recent years? Which hypocrite among them is going to meet and greet him when he next turns up in Scotland on what will be a state visit? Being half Scottish, and loving Scotland, instead of insulting him should we not be asking for his support to help us get our independence? Have Western Isles Council got the statue of his mither ready, celebrating how any Scot with get up and go got up and left what is still a nation and people haud doun by its ain gormless elites (SNP included)?

    1. Bryan Weir says:

      Noting to do with Scotland. The majority of the world’s leaders have (rightly IMO) been denouncing him for the last year or more.

    2. Graeme Purves says:

      The notion that it is possible to stay on the right side of Trump is touchingly naive.

      1. John Robertson says:

        ‘touchingly naive?’ ‘smugly superior?’ ‘I couldn’t possibly comment.’

    3. Frank says:

      It’s interesting the effects of power on people…. so in Alf’s world everyone who has dared criticise Trump should now apologise because Trump has power. The slave mentality of Alf is interesting because it offers a genuine insight into the mind of the fascist. Terrifying stuff.

      1. Alf Baird says:

        Aye, a great potential opportunity for Scotland thwarted thanks to Holyrood’s big mouth pc neoliberal fans-of-Hillary buffoons. The people will shortly send them the same way as her. And just wha in Scotland is going to meet and greet Airforce1 at Turnhoos? Mundell?

        1. John Robertson says:

          Trump gets a very soft handshake from Fluffy and gives him a suspicious sideways glance? Meanwhile Kezia’s in the bushes (no, don’t laugh!) with a sniper’s rifle provided by Nicola’s newly set-up security service EhmayeJistthewan. Big, Wee (?) Eck pretends to tee-aff to distract the Donald. Patrick is off somewhere looking for those lovely greens he’s heard of. Willie? Who?

      2. John Robertson says:

        Frankly unfair and stupidly offensive to Alf.

        1. Alf Baird says:

          Nae offence taken John, Ah’m shuir The Donald is hivin a guid gaggle aboot thon stupit fowk he hid tae ‘deal’ wi at Holyrood. Personally I think Nicola should pack it in, and Alex – oor foreign affairs man! – should also call it a day. SNP need new leadership wi a focus on independence and nothing else – the unionist UK ‘Home’ Civil Service run everything for noo anyway.

  17. Jack Collatin says:

    ‘And Scottish Independence? In a word as dangerous as this one has just become? On a pre-Brexit timetable? Don’t be fucking ridiculous. Indy ref 2 has now definitively receded back beyond the election in 2020,’
    is quite a leap, dear auteur.
    The timetable for Self Determination remains unaltered.
    When May triggers article 50 in March 2017, the road map to Self Determination is laid out before us.
    Brexit will mean Brexit.
    England and Wales, and DUP N Ireland, hanker after the glory days of Empire.
    Trade with the Commonwealth, closer economic, political, and military ties with London’s new bestest friend, Trump’s Fundamentalist Christian Evangelist America, with a Wall Mart in every Town Centre, a chain of Trump Lodge Motels, and more US Military and Industrial Complex Defence deals. Lovely jubbly for the City Boys.
    It will become clear by March ’17 that Scotland is being dragged out of Europe by the Ultras of Westminster and Whitehall, and Corbyn and the tattered remnants of the anachronism that classes itself as ‘the left’, will be as willing and eager as the Far Right to leave the EU.
    They are two fleas on the same bipolar dug.
    Them and Us. Yin and Yang. Jack and Victor.
    Well, the rest of us are having none of it.
    Indyref 2 will go ahead, probably in the spring of 2018, as reality bites, and Prez Trump is well ensconced, by which time the citizens of Scotland will know exactly what Brexit means, and how dystopian the US has become.
    The notion that we hold fire until after 2020 is quite frankly ludicrous, if not downright ‘fucking ridiculous’.
    Good try but, mind, though.

    1. c rober says:

      Many will know my views on all of the political parties in Scotland , and that I am pro home rule – in what ever manner is provided and to the people level.

      However I am in agreement that we are in a perfect storm , one that has came around showing the sun on the ‘orizon , it is not post 2020 – it is after article 50 is declared.

      The billionaire Trump got elected despite being a liar , and on the promise of a Great America , of land of milk and honey – and it was swallowed , just like those lies of project fear and promise in both Indy and Brexit.

      THE only way to achieve this is for the SNP in next years council election to STAND on one mandate – independence , defeating even the need for any Westminster approval to hold a referendum. Either way it is accepted as democracy in action , or it defines another MANDATED referendum.

      When any indy II is declared then the lessons that were learned should be applied , including any scrutiny of postal voting , like cross referencing landlords registered tenants , 2nd home owners based eleswhere in the UK , voters rolls , CT , doctors surgeries and tax receipts addresses.

  18. Ex Pat says:

    ‘Hello Cheltenham!’

    > So, to clarify Alf you are of the belief that the referendum was stolen by MI5?

    Let’s not be naive here. If the following is true and and having watched the war in Northern Ireland closely for nearly fifty years, it undoubtedly is, why would some government department not give democracy a nudge in the right direction? (ER. Right (wing) direction? Ha! As in completely stitch up the outcome, given the poll and internet forecast Yes win. Ed.)

    In ‘Hello Cheltenham!’

    Questioner said that departments of the UK government controlled cyber media, as they had previously controlled the Muppet Stream Media (MSM) as a Cold War tactic.

    Anyone know his name?

    He also said –

    1. This talk – video and audio – will be in Cheltenham this afternoon and sections will forwarded to other government agencies by tomorrow.

    2. News in the UK was completely managed as a Cold war strategy. And is now too.

    3. As was Anti-colonialism managed by the UK media for 200 years.

    4. Q. What should be the reaction of Scottish Independence campaigners to these facts?

    To which Mike Small of BellaCaledonia replied ‘Hello Cheltenham!’ to laughter from the crowd. And ‘carry on doing what we’re doing’.

    Adam Ramsay said that after surveying people he was astounded that many in Scotland still equated likely surveillance and infiltration of Scottish Independence with ‘tin-foil hat’ conspiracies, despite millions spent having the police infiltrate – and impregnate, and father children with, women from – soft environmental movements. (Which is the problem that Noam Chomsky alludes to in Rebel Without a Pause above, previously. Who has been under the whip for 800 years – who get it – versus those who have been holding it for 800 years – who are hopelessly naive – or willfully ignorant?)

    Video –

    Hello Cheltenham: –


    The livestream contains comments on the question from other audience members – TIME ?? –

    – Event Livestream: – https://youtu.be/sLn02mwm8pc

    The livestream does not begin at the start of the event. But video of it was recorded and is presented – They had a backup plan. Excellent. No muppets at Radical Independence’s video department –

    – From the very start – Adam Ramsay Talk: – https://youtu.be/cFh7vo4ygbA

    It turns out that John O’Dowd has summarised the talk, but also expanded it with lots of very useful background information which makes it a much more coherent and informative article.


    1. Craig Miller says:

      It’s easily conceded that the labourists were heavily infiltrated by secret police agents , and not just at the height of the Cold War but indeed in with the bricks…..easily conceded because they blithely recorded that fact in their memoirs …the labourists were considered a legitimate target as they posed a danger to what the BBC calls the “unity of the british family ” ….how much more the universally accepted political expression of Scottish Nationalism ?….we must accept that the SNP are indeed infiltrated by the secret police…surely….we must ?

  19. Taranaich says:

    Remember on morning after the Brexit vote? Remember the morning after the Scottish referendum? This is so much worse, isn’t it?

    To be frank, Peter, no, this is not so much worse at all. The United Kingdom is still a sovereign state which can choose its destiny: that includes the possibility of fixing what it broke. Same to the United States. Scotland is the first, and thus far only, nation in the history of the world who gave away their sovereignty by way of a referendum. Something hundreds of thousands of people in other countries died for, 55% of Scots simply gave away. You have a right to your opinion, but I certainly don’t have to agree with it.

    As for us? On the left? We are all Jeremy Corbyn now. Self regarding, irrelevant and ludicrous.

    If that’s our attitude, then we deserve it. We didn’t give up on Scottish Independence on the 19th of September: the left shouldn’t give up now, especially when we know exactly what went wrong and how to make amends next time.

    And Scottish Independence? In a word as dangerous as this one has just become? On a pre-Brexit timetable? Don’t be fucking ridiculous. Indy ref 2 has now definitively receded back beyond the election in 2020, when, just maybe, Michele Obama will be back to deliver us.

    I disagree that it’s ridiculous. The EU has now been hit by two massive shocks in England & Wales voting to leave, and now someone hostile to the EU & friendly to EUskeptics as president of the USA. Having alienated Europe, the UK must – and has – cosied up to Trump and Republican USA. If Scotland stays in the UK, then the North Sea Gap belongs to the USA. If Scotland stays in the EU as an independent country, then the North Sea Gap is EU protected.

    What would it say if the EU simply let two EU nations who voted to remain by a greater margin than the two leave-voting nations be dragged out without a fight? Don’t give me pish about other separatist movements: even if it was true, it’s a choice between *risking* splinters in the EU, and *ensuring* the loss of Scotland & Northern Ireland.

    I don’t think Scottish Independence is off the table at all.

    1. c rober says:

      Of course there is the EU fear that the domino effect may well see the Southern states leave – or the Eastern units consider the Russian option.

      They already have problems , Lituania may well leave to prevent the population drain. Hungary and partners and the immigration/refugee crisis , and of course everyone conveiently avoiding the first foot rule for asylum.

      The EU needs to change , imo the only option is to accept Scotland , Spain has no veto just because of Catalan – but I am not so sure that the Nordic option has even been discussed as an alternative by the SNP , after 300 years without levers then that still is my preffered option…. its like expecting a divorced person to run to the nearest registry office to do any union again without soverign levers.

  20. tartanfever says:

    ‘very dangerous delusions, one of which is climate change’

    Genuine question Peter ?

    Which is worse ?

    Trump, who thinks Climate Change is a ploy by the Chinese to boost their trade.

    Clinton, publicly believes in climate change, behind the scenes has taken millions of dollars from Corporate America (including much from the fossil fuel industry) to promote their agenda and help their lobbyists halt progressive climate laws in Congress.

    1. c rober says:

      The home of the original climate change – dust bowl.

  21. J Galt says:

    Michelle Obama???

    Ur ye aff yur heid!

    1. John Robertson says:

      Aye, one more dynasty, that’s just what we need.

  22. Craig P says:

    “Remember the morning after the Scottish referendum? This is so much worse, isn’t it?”

    No. The result of the Indy ref triggered a bereavement. Part of me died that day.

    Today by contrast what has changed? Just another scary rich white guy in charge of the USA – in a vote we had no say in and therefore no direct interest.

  23. peterarnott says:

    Where does it come from? This impulse to sugar coat the undeniable truth that Trump’s voters knew exactly who and what they were voting for: a thug who they want to beat the world into submission on their behalf? Is it liberal arrogance or delusion to assert that “our people” were “really” voting against all the things that lefties don’t like, but they made an an unfortunate mistake in accidentally voting for a fascist revolution rather than a socialist one? Total bullshit. A lot of people enjoy Trump’s violence…because they feel violent themselves. They want him to exercise that violence on “the others” to make them feel better. They don’t believe that liberals can make the violence go away by mouthing platitudes at it. So they are getting into it. They want Trump to attack everybody who makes them uncomfortable: uppity women and blacks. Trump’s voters also voted for a Republican house and senate. They knew exactly what they were doing.

    1. Jo says:

      Are you paying attention to your own hateful language towards people you are judging, along with their motives for voting Trump, so abominably?

      It is fairly certain that in among all those voters were those who, ordinarily, would have voted for the Democrats but who simply did not have the stomach to vote for Clinton.

      One thing lost the election for the Democrats and that was their candidate. Clinton should never have been allowed to stand. She was thoroughly soiled goods and anyone over a certain age knows that. Younger ones saw what she was prepared to do to Sanders in order to push him out of her way.

      As for this: “The first black president of the USA will have to hand over the White House to someone endorsed by the Ku Klux Klan.” it seems to me your rage needs treatment. Fast.

      1. John Robertson says:

        Well said Jo. Trump’s awfulness is a given but some seem to either know little of or be prepared to ignore Clinton’s greater sins in Libya, Syria, Honduras and Palestine. I know his hands have wandered unforgivably but hers are drenched in the blood of innocents.

  24. Craig Miller says:

    Then there is the obverse ….Hilary doesn’t stand for anything she says she does ….nothing she says from feminism to colour to economic justice reflects her true “feelings” about policies dear to her public constituency ….I didn’t just choose to dislike her nor was it a spasm ….I researched …..research not ideology informs , my no doubt temporary , relief that this evil woman was denied power

    1. John Robertson says:

      Just, well said.

  25. cee says:

    no nothing compares to the referendum vote . i felt much worse . trump will come and go and theres a big pond between us .as long as they take the fuse out the button box the world will survive .

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